Raja' bin Murajja says: I, Ahmad bin Hanbal, Ali bin al-Madini and Yahya bin Ma'in gathered in Masjid al-Khayf, and a debate took place about touching the private part (mass al-dhakar). Yahya bin Ma'in said that it breaks ablution and cited the hadith of Busrah bint Safwan as evidence, while Ali bin al-Madini adopted the view of the Kufans and cited the hadith of Qays bin Talq from his father (in which it is called a part of the body) as evidence. Ali bin al-Madini said to Yahya: How can you rely on the chain of Busrah when Marwan only sent a message through a guard? Yahya replied that Urwah was not satisfied with that, but went himself and heard it from Busrah; then Yahya criticised Qays, the narrator of the hadith of Talq bin Ali, saying that he is not used as proof. Ahmad bin Hanbal said that both points carry weight in their place. Then Yahya presented the report of Ibn Umar performing ablution (from it), and Ali bin al-Madini presented the saying of Ibn Mas'ud: "Ablution is not performed because of it; it is only a piece of your body." Yahya asked: From whom is this? He said: From Sufyan, from Abu Qays, from Huzayl, from Abdullah; and he said that when Ibn Mas'ud and Ibn Umar differ, following Ibn Mas'ud is more appropriate. Ahmad bin Hanbal said: Yes, but Abu Qays al-Awdi, who is in this chain, is not used as proof. Then Ali said: Abu Nu'aym narrated to me, from Mis'ar, from Umayr bin Sa'id, from Ammar, who said: "I do not mind whether I touch it or my nose." Yahya said: Between Umayr bin Sa'id and Ammar bin Yasir there is a desert (i.e. the chain is broken).